There are obstacles that everyone has to deal with at any moment in our lives, even taking the journey in real estate investing. For our guest in this episode, health became a considerable factor that almost kept her from achieving financial independence. Inspiringly, she never ever gave up. Matt Fore is with the founder of Sylvis Capital, Amy Sylvis. Amy shares her story about how she disallowed her health condition to stop her from investing in real estate. She talks us through the five financial freedoms that financial independence can provide and gives tips and inputs on which markets to invest in to help us navigate our own journey. Become a part of this inspiring episode and listen to Amy on how she took a leap of faith to pursue investing in real estate.

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Achieving The Freedoms Financial Independence Can Provide Through Real Estate With Amy Sylvis

We have on Amy Sylvis. She is the Founder and Principal of Sylvis Capital, which primarily focuses on apartment investments in Alabama, Indiana, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas. She’s always been drawn to freedom, growth, and expansion and knew that she could serve more people by investing in multifamily real estate. She is here to talk us through the five freedoms that financial independence can provide. Not only that, she has a super interesting backstory that I’m happy to dive into.

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Amy, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Matt. This is such a pleasure. Appreciate it.

We like to start with the difficult questions here. What’s your favorite ice cream?

I have to say apricot mango sherbet. I don’t know if you all remember Thrifty’s ice cream now Rite Aid. I love the tart and tangy. That’s my jam.

That is a very unique mixture. Apricot, mango and sherbet. All-in-one.

It’s fantastic. Highly recommend.

We are going to dive into the controversial topic of toppings or no topics.

I’m a purist, so no toppings for me. That’s enough flavor for my mouth to handle.

I’m assuming you are a bowl girl then.

No, I do like cones. The Thrifty ice cream cones are nostalgic. That’s probably what it is for my childhood.

Tell our readers, what’s the scoop? Where did your journey begin?

The real estate industry is full of tremendous people willing to impart wisdom.CLICK TO TWEET

My journey began several years ago. I’m one of those steady as she goes, tried a few times, failed a few times, but essentially I was looking to decouple my ability to earn money from the time I invested. Long story short, without getting too much into it. You are welcome to ask her questions and dive in. I was born with a health challenge. I knew from a very young age that, unfortunately, my ability to work might not always be there because of a progressive lung condition called Cystic Fibrosis.

All’s well that ends well. I’m in great health now, but it was the key to my journey where I thought I didn’t want to be dependent on my parents. God forbid I couldn’t work. I don’t know how much longer my lungs are going to last and allow me to have a full-time job, so I stumbled upon real estate and passive investing. That was a game-changer for me, a mindset shift, and got me into this industry.

I don’t want to breeze over this. I know there have been some advancements in terms of what’s going on with this condition and some of the new developments. It has a happy ending. Can you tell us where you are now?

Something happened right before the pandemic in November of 2019. All of us in the cystic fibrosis community had been praying for, hoping for, and fighting for decade upon decade that a miracle medication came to the market. It’s not a cure. It has changed about 90% of our lives and made life so much easier. Many of us have been able to return back to work, return to school and live very productive lives without the interruptions of being in the hospital for two weeks at a time, year after year, or several times a year. We’re incredibly grateful for it. They came to the market and I’m so grateful. I have got the second half of my life to be able to enjoy great health.

It’s a very rare disease if I understand it correctly, is that right?

Only 30,000 people in the United States have it and about 70,000 worldwide. That was the struggle with drug development. That’s a whole other story, but it’s a lot more financially attractive to develop drugs for conditions that impact millions of people as opposed to a tiny little population like us.

I’m happy to hear about the advancements you’ve made and that you are in a good bill of health. I know that you have a bright future ahead of you, which includes multifamily real estate. We were chatting before the show here that you jumped into multifamily while most of us went through the troubles of scaling our single-family portfolio. Why did you decide to go multifamily to begin with?

I knew and understood the benefits of multifamily from the get-go, and quite frankly, I don’t think I knew any better to know that maybe it would be a better idea to do single-family. The economies of scale made sense to me in terms of property management and the resources that I could have, the unlimited or maybe less impact of vacancy to get a single-family home. If one person isn’t renting, you got 100% vacancy.

A little bit different if you’ve got 100 units and you’ve got one person not occupying a unit. I’m in Los Angeles, California, so not the most landlord-friendly area and buying a single-family home. One of my favorite markets you happen to be in is Nashville. It would be a little hard to manage. Maybe not as cost-effective to have a single-family out of Nashville living in LA, so I went for it. I thought, “If anyone could do it, I can, so let’s go.”

You said it was a ten-year journey. Talk us through that journey where you started, lessons you learned along the way, and all that stuff.

When you are on the journey, sometimes it can be difficult. I’m sure many people have had goals or things that they aspire to. When you are in the trenches, you are going to go, “Why is this taking so long?” To your point, there are so many amazing lessons. I was a biotech professional. I was working in that industry and balancing a very successful career. Cystic fibrosis at that time was a full-time job as well.

Trying to get into the industry of multifamily real estate investing was simply too much for my body to handle. I tried time and time again to buy my first deal, do market research, and do some traveling, and I would end up, sadly, back in the hospital. The benefit was I got to see a market cycle and a half and understand the different dynamics.

Not a lot of people have been through a recession or an economic downturn. Maybe they only know good times. It’s made me a much better underwriter, assessor of risk, and the people I met over the ten-year period of time. I’m sure you’ll agree that this industry is full of tremendous people willing to give, impart wisdom, and such. It set me up for success, even though it was a little tough at that time.

It’s funny you said that because I do agree that the community of real estate investors is a very open community where people are willing to help. I sometimes talk to some people in the older generation that are a part of my network and they are like, “If you’ve got a property, don’t tell anybody else about it because they will go steal it from you and things like that.” One of the things I try to implement is that there are many more out there. We are working in a multi-trillion-dollar industry. If I get snaked in a deal, then there’s another deal coming down the line and probably a similar market with better returns anyway.

That abundance mindset will get us everywhere. Sometimes it can be hard to have, but if you lean into that and trust that, the world is your oyster.

How were you able to find people to partner with or build that team during that journey?

I started passively investing, even though I didn’t intend to be a passive investor throughout the remainder of my life or my career. Because I was struggling to do my own deals and get into the industry, I had been a great steward of my finances and saved some money. I decided to passively invest with a few operators to know what good looked like or hopefully not bad. I think you understand what I was saying. The good, the bad, and the ugly, and formed a network with that. In addition, I went through a mentorship program and was able to find some great people with like-minded values and outlooks. Networking and taking action helped me find great partners.

Let’s talk about the LP position because I encourage people it’s the highest and best use of their time, and return on intentionality is something that I care about deeply. Not necessarily assets under management, doors, or how much capital you have. It’s, are you being intentional with your life? For most people, that’s being a passive investor in deals. When you were an LP looking for operators, how did you find operators, and then how did you underwrite and vet operators?

It was about networking. I was not an accredited investor at that time, so I was only able to see 506(b) or participate in 506(b) deals which, as we all know, can’t be advertised. I would attend my local real estate clubs, REIAs, and things like that to get to know people. I would also attend networking events online that were associated with one of the coaching programs I was a part of and listen to podcasts.

It was just getting myself out there, meeting as many people as possible, and then asking the right questions. You and I both know having skills, great returns, and a track record is important, but there’s a values component that is so important that I can’t under-emphasize because things happen in this industry inevitably. It’s part of being a real estate investor, and you want to make sure that you’ve got people at the helm making the best decisions with values that align with yours.

It was reading books and podcasts in terms of underwriting and learning how to do that. I wasn’t as great of an underwriter then as I am now. With my limited experience and understanding, the rest was trust and trusting in the operators that I had grown a relationship with to know that this was a good deal to invest in.

The value piece is important to double-click on because it’s not a number that can fit in a spreadsheet. We have gone through this historic bull run in the past. I think that we are going to have a choppy year in the future. I could be wrong. Nobody has a crystal ball, but you are going to start seeing who was swimming naked for Warren Buffett’s sake, in the sense of who was over-leveraged, who was running hot on deals, and things like that. If you don’t have the right value system in place with your partners or the people you invest in, then that’s when things can get a little bit tricky.

You want to ensure that you’ve got people at the helm making the best decisions with values that align with yours.CLICK TO TWEET

None of us knows the future. That’s the truth. We hope the good times roll on, but who knows? To your point, yes. What are people’s values? It’s easy to do the right thing when everything is going well. What happens when inevitably there are some bumpy patches? How are decisions made even when no one’s looking? I couldn’t agree with you more.

It’s a much better or simpler way to put it. How many LP deals did you do before moving into the general partner or the operator side?

I did two LP deals and a JV. Two different operators. Same with the two LPs and then a different operator for the JV.

On the LP position, when you were a limited partner or passive investor, did you get a chance to look behind the hood at how things were being run? What did that communication look like?

Thankfully that was pretty smooth. That was something that I was upfront about when I was looking for opportunities of, “I’m relatively new. I’m looking to learn more. Is this something where when you take LPs, are you willing to share a bit more in-depth with someone that’s looking to be a bit more inquisitive?” Thankfully, that was a great relationship and something they were able to do. I know not all operators do, but it was important for my learning. I’m so grateful for that opportunity.

As a passive investor, what does good communication look like from a GP then? Where you getting monthly or weekly? Could you call them? What does all that look like?

I was getting quarterly communications after the first six months. The first six months were monthly, which I thought was fantastic, which was great. It felt like the right cadence and accessibility to be able to call the operators when I wanted to text message and things like that. It was a relatively smaller-ish GP team in terms of the number of assets under management, but they still had a strong focus on making sure they were available to LPs and interested in nosy ones like me.

It’s important to cover because I’m involved in a number of different LP positions with a number of different operators now. You would think that everybody has their standard communication, but they absolutely don’t. I have got one operator that sends me quarterly communication, but it is a novel that they send. I was texting with someone because they were asking about this particular operator, and I was like, “It’s the best communication I have seen in terms of in-depth.”

I then get another LP position where they send monthly, but it’s not that in-depth. You don’t know what the taxes and insurance are. You are not seeing the books. It’s important when you are going through the process of being a limited partner to ask what the communication is like from the general partner and make sure that it aligns with what you are looking for.

I have LP investors, but on the GP side now, it’s so interesting because there are so many different needs across the board. Some people want their check, and as long as that’s coming, that’s all they care about, and other people want to know the details. To your point, finding an operator that fits your needs and is willing to communicate the way you need is such a great tip. I love that you brought that up.

One of the things we were chatting about before the show was looking at different markets and the type of demographics and things that you are looking for. Can you talk us through, when you are looking at a market, what you are looking for and what are the key things that would make a market an absolutely no?

That would make it a no way to switch it up on me. I like this. I’m usually asked what makes it a yes. Market research, I cannot emphasize to the readers enough, and folks probably already know, but it’s worth repeating. It’ll make or break a deal. The deal itself is important, but is the market going to make it sing or make it a little bit more of a struggle?

I start off by looking at markets that are landlord-friendly or not landlord-friendly. It’s a good place to start. The State of California, for example. I’m in Los Angeles. It’s probably not news to anybody, but it’s not very landlord-friendly. That would make it an absolute no. We still have an eviction moratorium two and a half years into COVID in Los Angeles. I’m not looking to be a slumlord. I don’t think anyone intentionally wants to do that.

We do want fair and equitable laws. There are markets outside of California that do offer that where you don’t want to evict someone five days after non-payment, but you do want to have an opportunity to work with someone if you still need to pay your debt payment and all your other fixed costs and someone isn’t paying. That’s the first piece, and then demographics.

If we are not seeing job announcements in job growth and population growth, the population is like a look in the rearview mirror because the census only comes out every few years at best. Looking at that trend, if there isn’t a positive trend and there’s out net migration, that’s going to decrease demand and be a screaming indicator that that’s not a place where you necessarily want to invest. The final one, I could go on for a while, but high unemployment. No go.

One of the downsides to the eviction moratorium is this supply constraint that we are seeing in the market right now. During 2020, I want to be very cognizant of helping people that are in need, but sometimes they can be taken a little too far, and all of a sudden, now you’ve got people that aren’t paying for housing with landlords that own housing in other places. The people that can pay are obviously getting double charged because there are other properties that can’t be moved out. It has a downstream effect that we all need to be cognizant about.

It was a very real thing. If we think of mid-summer 2020, unemployment was above 10%. GDP contracted by 35% quarter over quarter. We didn’t want a whole slew of people out on the streets. I understand the intention, as you mentioned, and we worked very closely with our residents to find nonprofit help and state local help. There are things that can be done, but to your point, moderating it a little bit and all of that is important for us to keep in mind.

Are there any markets that you are looking at right now or particularly focused on?

There’s a market about 60 miles Northwest of where you are called Clarksville, Tennessee, that we absolutely love. We own it and want to continue to expand. We tend to or have been looking at secondary markets outside of major markets like Nashville that are still benefiting from job growth and net migration, but institutional competition doesn’t quite exist yet. That may be coming down the pike.

Huntsville, Alabama and the surrounding markets of Athens and Decatur, we closed a 220-unit in Decatur, Alabama. Incredible market, lots of recession-resistant industry that United States Space Force is relocating to Huntsville, which I can’t believe as a division of the military, but that exists. That’s a thing. The FBI is expanding lots of job growth and the cost of living is still low there. It’s another great market.

I preached from the high mountain tops for the past years that people are sleeping in Huntsville because with the FBI moving 5,000 jobs there and the Space Force, they obviously have a huge rocket tie-in. As the billionaires of the world build out their rocket companies, I feel like Huntsville is going to get a lot of that natural tailwind, so I love that you mentioned that.

The Huntsville airport received the first FA designation for the commercial rocket at clearance or something along those lines. I can’t even say it because it sounds so different to me, but it’s pretty amazing.

They who control your finances make the rules.CLICK TO TWEET

One of the things that I have learned through research about you is the five freedoms that financial independence can provide. If we can, I’d love for you to list those off, and let’s take a few and dive into them.

Financial Freedom is 1 of the 5 freedoms, and then we have got Freedom of Time, and Freedom of Geography, place, or wherever you want to live. Freedom of Associations of who you want to be around and Freedom of Purpose. I have to credit the amazing Trevor McGregor, who is my business coach. These are not my ideas, but I love to shout him out because he’s an incredible man but they resonate with everybody because we are all born to be free. We aren’t born to be on this hamster wheel for our time and almost everything about our day is controlled. I love these five freedoms.

Which is your favorite freedom?

Time freedom because everything can come from that if I have agency over. When I get out of bed in the morning and plan out what that day looks like, I can then make the other four freedoms happen. It’s the cornerstone of passive income. It does by anytime.

That’s exactly what I thought you were going to say. If you have time freedom, you can do all the other ones. What I have typically found is that the busier my days become, I don’t think about, “Can I be geographic? Am I associating myself with the right people? Am I aligning with my purpose every day?” It’s only on the weekends or during times when I’m on vacation and not working every single day that I can focus on the things that are of high value to me.

That’s profound. You are spot on. That makes sense. You’ve got a lot more mind space with that to allow your brain to think and create if you have that time freedom. I love that.

How has investing helped you with the freedom of association specifically?

Having control of where my income comes from allows me to dictate who I can be around because I’m not dependent upon a paycheck and I control my actions. If someone has control over where my money comes from to pay my bills, I have to submit it to them in some way, shape, or form, and working in Corporate America. I loved my time in biotech. I think there are incredible things that come out of that space.

Who your manager is and who your co-workers are can change. That could be dynamic. As I mentioned several times, I’m a strong values person. I want to associate myself with people that are better than me and go where I want to go. All of those things can be a game-changer. Having that control over my paycheck empowers me to be around the people that are the most meaningful.

I also say that I’m not knocking anybody specifically, but there are times in a W-2 career when you are going to be asked to do things that you think are in the gray area. The Supreme Court legislated on the opioid case in West Virginia, specifically where 40 million pills were shipped to a state with 3 million people in a 5-year time period. You can imagine the amount of pressure those drug reps got to make sure they were continuing to write prescriptions for those pills. That might be a situation you agree with or don’t agree with, but it seems like a great situation to me. If you don’t have that financial freedom, you are almost submissive to following what that company needs for that area.

What a great and powerful analogy. You are right. He or she who controls your finances makes the rules. Maybe that’s the golden rule in some respects. That makes a lot of sense.

Your last one is freedom of purpose. What do you think Amy’s purpose is on this planet?

If you know the answer, let me know. I think hope and encouragement. When I was born, my parents took me home from the hospital and were told that I would live to be 16, maybe 18 years old, which is wild. If you think about the early-1980s and it almost makes me tear up because my parents found it hard to keep hope. I’m at this period where I’m doing things I never imagined I could do.

I love to be able to tell my story to show people that even if the facts are in front of you or what you are told either by medical professionals, mentors, or voices that aren’t helpful in your world for whatever reason, it doesn’t mean you can’t defy the odds, do the impossible, or follow your dreams. You are put here for a purpose and you have a calling in your hearts, and that’s true. You get to follow that and prove everybody wrong. Hopefully, I’m a little bit of encouragement with my existence here on this planet to show to people that all things are possible.

In the years I have been doing the show, you are one of the most infectious people I have had on the show so far. I certainly think that you’ve met that purpose, but if somebody was out there trying to figure that out for themselves, what guidance would you give them to help them clearly define what their purpose is?

There is a gift from the people that are in our lives. Not everyone speaks truth to us or speaks helpful information, but purposely talking to and having conversations with people that you trust that live lives and have values that you align with and asking them what they see in you because we all have blind spots. I’m guilty of it myself. I’m with myself all day long, you are with yourself all day long, and we are living who we are. Sometimes it takes voices of people that are like-minded and encouraging to help us see how we help people, what we do well, or the patterns that we may not see of our goodness in this world. Having mentors, peers, and people that you trust to help guide you through that can be very strong and positive in determining your purpose.

I’m glad you said that because that is true. All of us live inside of our own heads, and we know our own weaknesses. Because we know our own weaknesses, we don’t even know our own strengths and our talents sometimes. It takes asking someone else what my talents are. What do you think I’m good at? You’ll uncover talents that you are good at that you never even knew you had. I’m glad you brought that up.

We all have blind spots, positive and negative, and trusted people can help us with both. I love that you said that.

One of the things I have heard you say, too, is that you had trouble growing up planning for the future because it was so uncertain and sometimes a little bit difficult to see. What do the next ten years look like for Amy?

For the next ten years, my husband and I have a ton of charitable goals. I have been on receiving end of strangers, acquaintances, healthcare professionals, and random people that have poured into my life to make me healthy, encourage me, and support me. I cannot wait to be able to do that for other people.

I mentioned we are in Los Angeles. There’s an afterschool program called the Heart of LA. My husband grew up in East Los Angeles and knows what it’s like to have two working parents, socioeconomically disadvantaged. We all agree that children are the most precious, and they don’t get to decide where they are born, who their family is, or any of that.

Being able to give in an outlandish way to charities and impact lives is motivating us in the work that we do in the real estate space. Real estate is a vehicle. It’s not an end goal for us. Having those five freedoms is great if you can take care of those pretty easily and replace your income to cover those monthly expenses through real estate. We like to look above and beyond that, what we are going to do to impact this world to leave a legacy and fulfill our purpose on this planet.

Find like-minded people and surround yourself with those who are where you want to be.CLICK TO TWEET

I like to say money is a tool. Money can be a tool for bad, but money can also be a tool to pursue the passions and the purpose that you have in life. I’m so happy to hear that you are giving that back.

Thank you. It’s great. It’s the best feeling.

I want to shift us now into our last round. We are calling this the Five Toppings. Our first one is what is your favorite book, or what is a book you’ve read that’s given you a paradigm shift?

The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. It’s a big one. It’s an intimidating, long-looking book, and it starts slow, but studying monetary history and understanding the monetary system has never been more important than it is now. I encourage everyone to read it. I have read it about five times myself over the past years. I’m blown away. It sounded a little interesting in 2009 or 2010 when QV started. As things have continued to progress and go, “This is stranger than fiction.” It informs everything we do in business, and as hyperbolic as that may sound, but it’s so important.

It’s a very dense book but it is worth the read.

It is.

Our second one is I believe that the person you become ten years from now is directly correlated to the habits that you have in the things that you do every single day. What are some of the habits that you have?

The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod. If you are anything like me, you shoot out of bed and are super excited to get to work. It is so hard for me to discipline myself to do what’s outlined in that book. Meditate, exercise, do some affirmations, and visualize my goals. It’s important work but it is so hard for me to do. It sets the tone for the day in a way almost nothing else can. Those habits are imperative, and I do them even on vacation and weekends because I have come to understand that our brain and our subconscious is nice and still present right when we wake up, so we can program our brain and set our sights on our goals and what we want our day to look like.

If that seems like a lot to anyone out there, I will encourage you to establish some routine. What I have noticed is a little bit of a routine will help kick off your morning and put you in the right spot.

That’s right. Something is better than nothing. You don’t want to be intimidated by it.

Take control of the day. Don’t let it control you. Our third one is what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

A big Irish Catholic family and I have cousins who are still being born. There’s a ton of us. We roll deep. All of them are younger than me except for one. I love showing them that you can do great things in this world with integrity and purpose and give to others. Live a life that truly aligns with your values and relationship with God.

Our last one is if you could sit down and eat a bowl of ice cream with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be and why?

I would pick Christopher Columbus. I don’t think I would have it in me to do what he did. I think it’s fascinating to understand the obstacles he had to go through to get funding for this crazy idea he had to sail across the world. I’m not saying everything he did was great, but still a fascinating story about living a life that I can’t even fathom. I love being around people that are different than me and understanding how they think.

Amy, fantastic conversation. If anybody wanted to reach out to you and learn more about you, where’s the best place we could point them?

SylvisCapital.com is my website. You can reach out to me there. I would love to talk to you and get to know you. I’m one of those people that you probably can’t tell that loves to talk to people. Reach out, let’s chat, let’s get to know each other, and let me know how I can help you.

Sounds good. Thanks for being on the show.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a delight.

Important Links

• Sylvis Capital
• Trevor McGregor
• Heart of LA
• The Creature from Jekyll Island
• The Miracle Morning

About Amy Sylvis